tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post3051975122221892889..comments2021-09-10T12:52:48.773-07:00Comments on Dark Buzz: Von Neumann believed in Church's ThesisRogerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03474078324293158376noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-41227967135338950662018-03-28T16:31:20.611-07:002018-03-28T16:31:20.611-07:00I meant that before the 1960s, people didn't r...I meant that before the 1960s, people didn't really think of algorithms as polynomial time or exponential time, at least not in the literature.Craignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-76520581272129701422018-03-28T13:44:49.198-07:002018-03-28T13:44:49.198-07:00You've got a good point, but von Neumann actua...You've got a good point, but von Neumann actually built computers. The common von Neumann architecture is named after him. So certainly thought a lot about computing efficiently. And yet he never saw any point to putting bits in a cat state.Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03474078324293158376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-55394360015199104772018-03-28T13:43:55.838-07:002018-03-28T13:43:55.838-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03474078324293158376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-22427610659979830542018-03-28T13:36:03.207-07:002018-03-28T13:36:03.207-07:00Nobody today says a quantum computer might expand ...Nobody today says a quantum computer might expand the class of computable functions. They say the quantum computer might expand the class of *efficiently* computable functions. During von Neumann's lifetime, people didn't really think about this; they were happy just to get computers to work.Craignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-48965252399840952782018-03-28T12:40:19.281-07:002018-03-28T12:40:19.281-07:00Uncertainty and probability are not a quasi form o...Uncertainty and probability are not a quasi form of existence, they change nothing actual, they physically inform nothing actual. Both are attributes or properties of the observer or a calculation done by an observer, not attributes of what is observed. <br /><br />It does not matter how certain or uncertain you are about what is going on inside a damn box, regardless, it is what it is with or without an observers measurement or recognition. If you question this, just ask someone blind if they have run into things they were not aware of. You can walk into a wall whether or not you know it's there. Reality is not informed by how much awareness you have of it, however, awareness IS informed by reality. <br /><br /> It does not matter how much of a probability you 'calculate' something has or hasn't happened inside a box, as the functioning of whatever is or is not in the box, and is not informed in any way by what you think, know, or don't know about it. <br /><br />If you want to understand a process, acknowledge the limits of what you know, and stop conflating the mechanism of the math model with the actuality of the subject.CFTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-28267398180823895462018-03-28T10:10:18.880-07:002018-03-28T10:10:18.880-07:00You are making terminology distinctions that did n...You are making terminology distinctions that did not exist during von Neumann's life. Why didn't von Neumann ever say that a quantum computer might expand the class of computable functions? He was the world's expert on both quantum foundations and computability.Rogerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03474078324293158376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8148573551417578681.post-41581410347757803442018-03-28T08:18:55.771-07:002018-03-28T08:18:55.771-07:00Nobody has argued that QM is in direct contradicti...Nobody has argued that QM is in direct contradiction with the Church-Turing thesis. It is that QM is in direct contradiction with Extended Church-Turing thesis. <br /><br />There is a subtle difference. The Church-Turing thesis has to do with computability theory, while the Extended Church-Turing thesis has to do with computational complexity theory. <br /><br />Also, computational complexity theory started in the 1960's after von Neumann died.Craignoreply@blogger.com